The email below is from a young lady who is wondering what her chances of getting a scholarship to an ivy league business school if she does her undergrad studies at University of Phoenix. It’s a different sort of question, but one that several readers may find interesting.
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LNW wrote:
“Hi Marquis,
My name is LNW and I just have a quick question. If I do my undergrad at University of Phoenix (online) with perfect grades do you think I’ll be able to get a scholarship to an ivy league business school??
FYI: UOP recently ranked #1 online school in the country and #3 in world.”
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My response:
LNW,
Your question is an interesting one and I don’t think you’re going to like my answer very much. My response is my honest opinion about your question and I’m delivering in the spirit of trying to be as helpful as I can to you. It may come off as blunt, but, again, it’s completely honest.
Rather than thinking about your question in terms of “ivy league business school[s]”, I’ll frame it in terms of top tier business schools to widen the scope a little. When considering your question, I see it as being composed to two secondary questions and I’ll address each of them below:
1. If you do undergrad at University of Phoenix with perfect grades, could you get into a top tier business school?
– If you go to UoP and get stellar grades, you might be able to leverage that into a job, but it would be very difficult to leverage that to get into a top business school. Even with “perfect grades” from UoP, you would have to deal with the stigma that is currently associated with online degrees and, fair or not, the educational experience at an online university is not seen as rigorous as that at a traditional brick-and-mortar university. I wrote a paper about this for one of my Education School classes at Stanford and this stigma is rooted in several factors, such as these schools’ reputation as “diploma mills”, incidents of fraud at several well-known online colleges, non-traditional backgrounds of the faculty, and lack of national accreditation for several of these institutions. I’m not saying that online universities aren’t as good as traditional ones, but I have found that many education folks take that stance and it may work against you if have UoP as your undergrad institution on your business school applications. One’s undergraduate performance (and school) are only part of an overall application package that also includes GMAT scores, essays, and recommendations and you would need those other parts of your application package to be stellar. Your primary task will be coming up with an answer to the question of “If she wanted to get a top-tier MBA, why wouldn’t she prepare for the classroom experience by going to a traditional college or university???”…if you can’t come up with something compelling for that, then you’ll be fighting an uphill battle to get into a top business school. A lot of the value of business school comes from the live, in-person classroom interaction and that’s one of the major knocks to the reputation of online undergraduate education…it doesn’t provide that “traditional” classroom experience. So, while it would be “possible” to get accepted into a top B-school with an undergrad degree from UoP, it would probably be pretty difficult.
2. If accepted to one of those B-schools, could you get a scholarship?
– The first thing to understand here is that getting a scholarship to a top B-school is even more difficult than actually getting accepted to the school. In this case, instead of competing with the overall world of applicants, you’re now competing with who the school admissions folks saw as the strongest of those applicants. Given the likely background of those other accepted students, the deck would be stacked against you in the race for scholarships if you get accepted. Even with your perfect grades from UoP and the rockstar GMAT, essays, and recs that you’d need, the question of “why did she choose to go to UoP?” would likely be on the mind of the scholarship evaluator. Honestly, if I were that scholarship evaluator, it would be your job to convince me to overlook that UoP part of your profile and that task would be easier said that done.
I know that my response isn’t the one you were looking for, but it’s my honest read on the situation. With that said, I’ve never worked as a business school admissions officer before, so take what i say with a grain of salt. I do know a little about this B-school game by now though and I’d recommend that you think long and hard about your decision to enroll at UoP if you want to end up at a top-tier business school. One day, UoP and online education will have the kind of academic rigor and reputation to make for a strong starting point for a top MBA, but that day is likely pretty far away. For now, if your desired end-point is a top MBA, then I’d STRONGLY recommend that you attend a brick-and-mortar educational institution for undergrad. You could either start off at a 4-year school and go all the way through or start off with an Associates degree and then move on to a 4-year school, but getting your bachelor’s degree at a traditional college is your best move. Good luck.
-Marquis
P.S. If you disagree, feel free to explain your point of view on it.
Marquis,
I ran across your blog few months back while I was applying to B-School (Kellogg, Chicago GSB and Haas). I wanted to thank you for taking the time to respond so throughly to LNW’s question, and wanted to provide you with my experience.
First off – I completed by degree at UoP. However, I did not attend online, all of my classes were “brick and mortar” classes at a local campus.
I was very, very concerned about my undergrad during my application and interview process, specifically the stigma attached to UoP.
During my interviews, the question was brought up – why UoP? In fact, I think I was so concerned about it, that I “willed” it to come up. I had a good, and honest answer prepared and the interviewer was happy to discuss in depth. In the end, I think the UoP stigma is a little blown out of proportion.
Personally, my overall application was very strong with solid (700+) GMAT scores, great recommendations, a solid resume etc… so I’m not sure if that counter-balanced the UoP side. However, I can tell you that I have only heard from one of the three schools I’ve applied to, and I have been accepted to that program.
I’d agree with you that the online stigma is a problem, however I feel strongly that the UoP classroom program is not going to kill your application. While it likely does not carry the weight of a stanford, yale, harvard or similar undergrad, it’s not a death sentence.
I’d recommend that if you’ve gone to UoP and want to get into a top tier B-School – go for it! Study for your GMAT, get a solid resume together, write great HONEST essays and make sure you have the horsepower to pull it off.
Remember, if you’re not a top tier candidate, even with a great pedigree, you probably won’t get in.
Anyhow, just my two cents. I’ve read your blog and enjoy it quite a bit. Keep up the good work!
Ryan,
Thanks for your post. I’m a recent grad of UOP – B.S. biz management w/ gpa of 3.93. I ran into this blog as I am now in the process of applying for top tier b-schools. I’m quite glad to read that you got into one of those three (Kellogg, Chicago GSB, and Haas) schools, and that boosted my courage to aim high. If you don’t mind, will you tell us which one of three you got into ?
R.Y.
Sure R.Y. I was accepted to both Kellogg and Chicago. I’ll hear from Haas in about a month or so.
During the interviews, I noticed that Haas put the biggest emphasis on Phoenix. They had a few questions on the quality of the education etc… They actually called me back for a second interview to discuss it further.
My advice would be to put together the best application you can and go from there. Make sure you have great recommendations, shore up any weaknesses (UoP etc..) with a strong resume and GMAT scores. Then write some straight from the heart essays.
I didn’t do any coaching or any of the other stuff. Just be yourself, explain your strengths and if appropriate, address why you leveraged UoP as an opportunity.
Good luck!
Ryan, if you’re still out there, I’d sure like to chat with you!
Matt – I’m here. Whats on your mind?
could you email me?
mattkhoury at gmail dot com
thank you!
Ryan,
Thank you for your response.
After 1 month of job search, I just received more than 4 great job offers w/ UOP degree; moving from my current salary of 50k/year to 85k – 95k range.
Since all companies extending me their employment offers that provide educational assistance, I’ll definitely apply for grad school once I start working for the new co. I will apply for Haas.
Many thanks,
R.Y.
To decide which online business degree is right for you, it is best to decide what your career goals are or what your current job calls for. For instance, if you want to start your own small business, then a degree in marketing may be your best bet. But, if you are currently a manager at your place of business then leadership degree may get you the skills you need to get a promotion and a raise in your current career. Online Education College Degree http://online-high-school-home-education.blogspot.com .
Just in case anyone is reading this, I would take these comments with caution, since it sounds dangerously like astroturfing.